Shall the Narrow Gauge Madness forums live or die!

[russ]

Here is a message that I have posted on five Yahoo Groups forums where Ontario-based narrow gaugers hang out.  It is in response to message from Ferd and Ron who geenrously invest their tiem in managing hthis website and forum.

Here is my message (their message follwo mine if you haven't received a copy):

"I would like to wade in here and be perhaps be a little controversial.

First, thanks to Ron for valiantly trying to keep things going on the narrowgaugemadness forum and for challenging all of us on this matter. 

Second, our community of Southern Ontario Narrow Gaugers has gone quite quiet in the past year or two (but thankfully is still able to hold a great annual show thanks to the stellar efforts of a bunch of you folks).

Third, in today's world Yahoo Groups is a poor vehicle for hosting a community like ours which is not only text based but relies on sharing of a lot of images.  Also the collected material shared in such communities needs to be easily accessed so folks in future can go back and find it.

Right now we seem to need to have five Yahoo Groups to serve our needs (SORBB, NG Madness and NG Madness Admin, H&Lofbays, ON30-Toronto .. all of which are copied on this note) which I am sure is confusing the hell out of those in our community (beyond the core members) of our fine little NG community (Yes, I know the specific purpose behind each of these five forums but my comment remains)

I know some members of our community are reluctant to learn how to use the narrowgaugemadness forum.  I am perfectly willing to help anyone who needs help in doing so.

I suggest that we set up forums in Narrowgaugemadness to accommodate all of our groups and see if we can get the critical mass of traffic in the narrowgaugemadness forums that we need to attract and grow our community.  What makes a website with forums succeed is that critical mass of traffic.

Setting up a website as Ferd has done is not a simple task and takes hours and hours of work. It is not often that our railway oriented communities have someone in their midst with the knowledge and skills to do so.  It would be a real shame for us to walk away for this rare opportunity to build a real base for our Ontario community of narrow gaugers.

Obviously I have become a passionate fan of narrow gauge railways in recent years and therefore am putting out this impassioned plea because I would love to see a thriving community of narrow gaugers sharing online.  I am also a passionate fan of community building online and have experienced the joys of successful communities, one of which had 100,000's of members (yes it is railway related) and another that is a wildly successful narrow gauge Ferd-built forum (visit http://www.7-8ths.info/ and join and then see for yourself .. it has an unbelievable motherlode of information in the forums useful for all narrow gaugers, not just those in 7/8N2 scale!)

Now I suggest two next steps:

(1) Let's really discuss the above in each of our five Yahoo Groups and decide if there is a committed core of people who would like to participate in the narrowgaugeforum or not.

(2) For those of you who are comfortable with using the new forum, let's also have this discussion in the new forum as well.

Ron has been great in operating the narrowgaugeforum but without customers, he is wasting valuable modelling time as he suggests.  I suggest we give it one more go and then shut down the forum if there is insufficient traffic as Ron suggests.  If we do shut down the forum, let's then at least consolidate the three Yahoo Groups - SORBB, NGMadness and NGAdmin - and have only one.  But remember that each of these could exist separately in the NGMadness Forum if we go that route.

May the discussions begin!

Russ Milland"

=============================================

This is the message from Ron

Ferd has graciously provided us with a website to promote the Ontario Narrow Gauge Show:
http://www.narrowgaugemadness.com

As a bonus, he's included a forum for us to use:
http://www.narrowgaugemadness.com/forum/index.php

There hasn't been much parlance on the Yahoo Groups that I'm posting this message to, of late.

There's been even less on the Narrow Gauge Madness Forum.

Although I personally prefer the forum format, the majority here appear to prefer Yahoo.

Therefore, I suggest that we absolve Ferd of maintaining the forum portion of the Website.

However, I'd ask that he maintain the Photo Gallery, if possible...

The following message is from our Webmaster Ferd:
>
> I have been upgrading my other forums to newer better software and am
> wondering if the NGM forum will see any use. Seems most of the gang
> prefers the yahoo format and that is ok. I am happy to put time and
> effort into a project and only if it is used. If it will not be used
> then I would rather be putting the time into building models.
> Personally I find the yahoo format very annoying and I also get a lot
> of emails so I rather go online when it soots me than get my inbox
> filled with stuff.
>
> thanks
> Cheers Ferd

[TinGoat]

Hi Russ,

Thanks for boosting the Forum.

Ferd has offered us a reprieve for the time being and has updated the forum software.

Some folks like list-serves and others like forums.

I just don't know how to convert 'em all to forums.

Almost exactly a year ago I posted this:
Let's all gather under one roof...  on the H&LoBRy Group.

Aside from Niall's response, there wasn't any discussion.   

You could be Machiavellian and force them all to the forum by copying all the files and posts and then closing the Yahoo Group.  Short of that, I don't know...   

[bdurell]

OK, guys, I'll give the forum a try. I am all for a strong, functioning Ontario narrow gauge group. I joined the Yahoo list and find it handy as I read the groups on the website rather than having the notes appear as email. This means that when I sign in, all of my groups appear and I can easily tell if there has been any activity. Call it laziness if you wish. There seems to be much more here than on Yahoo, but it will likely take me quite a while to find my way around -- and to remember to check in.

-- Brian

Brian Durell
in the seriously cool County
(Prince Edward, that is.)

[Ferd]

Hi Brian
Use the RSS feed ability built into most browsers, this way it will tell you in the menu how many new posts have been made. Safari shows me every site that has been updated in one window with cool graphics, I know if any of the forums have had updates in a single glance (30+) forums. 

[TinGoat]

Hi Ferd,

RSS is very handy for blogs and forums.

But different Browsers handle RSS differently.

I like FireFox's.  It basically creates a folder in my Bookmarks/Favorites.  When I scroll over the folder, all then new postings show up and I can mouse over them and click the one I want to look at.  I get a favicon beside postings I've already seen.

Internet Explorer's RSS handling is cludgy and inelegant by comparison.

[Ferd]

Very true each browser is different. Here is a screen shot of Safari - every icon of the page with a blue star has new posts added.  There are also RSS feed readers that do just that, I tend to not use them as it is one more app to run.

cheers

[John Le Forestier]

Over at the On30 Toronto Yahoo list I've responded to Russ's post, and thanked Ron and Ferd for their efforts all'round.  I believe we'd all be better off in one place, and after a long process of conversion I've come 'round to preferring the forums to the yahoo groups - just slightly.  But I recognize one overarching virtue of the Yahoo groups, and I'll return to it below.
 
And I've suggested for what my humble opinion is worth, that everybody sign on here and accept the learning curve. 
 
I'd like to make a couple of comments, though.  If you look at the stats on the various topics and
scales and gauges covered here you'll see how specialized narrow gaugers are, with all their Gauges and scales, and very few followers of each.  This results in very little discussion, few replies.  I think people come to these things in order to meet others who are like minded - A few years ago I started On30-Toronto because two of my best model rail buddies had recently died and I was lonely, hoping to meet others who would want to share taking the hobby out to disadvantaged young people with me.  Didn't work with that particular group, but it's happening now, and I've moved on to Garden Railroading, having left On30 behind.  But I still admire the other scales and can learn and teach back and forth as much as ever!
 
We all use very much the same modelling techniques, by and large, and our prototype interests are usually quite similar; in fact, when it comes to narrow gauge, I can say speaking for myself, that I'm interested in it all, worldwide, and in all the scales; shucks if a model is interesting, I'll like it no matter what scale it is in!  I wonder if "the liveliness" of the wide-open free-for-all type discussionsa that I enjoy on the Yahoo groups could be combined with the searchability and other virtues of this forum, for example, by having FEWER, rather than more choices on the menu, and, to pursue the idea of gathering us together, once we get here, obliging us to collect in one or two places only for discussion.  The Lounge... where we all sit around and drink and laugh and whatever comes up comes up, and anybody can stick his oar in.
 
We do need to collect a critical mass of people to lively it up and to exchange ideas together, and it seems to me that we should continue to think along the lines of de-Balkanizing rather than going the other way.  As for me, I have edited my profile here  a bit this morning, navigated around some, posted this and another at On30 Toronto, and I shall make an effort to visit here more often. 
 
Meanwhile, to reply to Ferd, I'm afraid that I have no plans to go to the Paris show as I had to ignore much of my family over the Christmas break and I have promises to keep thru the weekends of January...
And trying to find some railroading time of my own - lots of projects on the go!
 

[russ]

John:

There is no reason why we can't have lively discussions here in these forums as well. 

What I like about this discussion forum structure is that folks can either just follow discussion in their own special niche interest, say ON30, or by checking the front page of the forum read any or all of the new posts in any of the forums.  On other forums elsewhere I tend to read all of the niche group postings as I learn from people working in all of the scales.

Russ

[TinGoat]

Once you are logged in, you will see "Show unread posts since last visit."

Even if I'm not doing 7/8's, I like to see what the other guys are doing in that scale.  And everyone is entitled to my opinion!   

[WhippyEx]

Interesting discussion Guys.

Think I will hang out here and forget about Yahoo. The main reason for this is I cannot stand the miles of print that list all the previous posts on the topic that accompany a new post. It takes too much time to go down and find the next new item.

Something I have never tried before are RSS feeds and am doing it now with this forum.

Making changes in routine is good brain exercise and we all need it.

[Davis]

Oh-oh! What's an RSS feed?

[TinGoat]

Hi Davis,

RSS = "Really Simple Syndication"

It's a way for you to keep track of all the latest activities on your favorite Blogs, Forums etc...

Different Web Browsers handle RSS in different ways, so it depends on what you are using.

You can also embed RSS feeds into your own personal webpage or blog.

[Ferd]

Will add a blog to the forum - anyone interested in creating articles please let me know -  it will be a fully featured blog

[TinGoat]

Hi Russ, Ferd et al...

One way to drag folks kicking and screaming into the 21st Century of Forums is to use the "Send this Topic" feature.

Post a message in the forum. 

Once it is posted; click the "Send this Topic" button and it will allow you to send a link to the posting to a friend, or yahoo group.

This compels people to come to the forum, join and start to participate.

[Ferd]

I have also added what I think is a way cool addition :  BLOG  yes every member can now add his/her own blog. How does the blog differ from a forum. Well the blog is a complete story or view. i.e magazine article an example of which would be ; a full story on how, why and illustrations of your micro layout.  A forum on the other hand is a thought or work in progress and ideas are exchanged, shared and hashed as the work progresses. Often in the form of a question and in some cases invokes more solutions than desired. 

Cheers and happy surfing